Don’t ever send money

Couples: a comparison
Dumping Spam


… beautiful Woman from Elena’s Models that I talked to in my initial search …

Every week I get a sob story from some guy who’s out $10,000 or so.  He was in love with a Russian (or Ukrainian) Woman.  And after a long “engagement’ or love affair, he began to send her money.  And everything went fine with their relationship until he became a little suspicious.  And when he stopped sending money, she cut off all contact.

There was only one problem.

He never actually met her.

As much as I pity these guys, I can’t help but NOT feel sorry for them.  For the same reason that I don’t feel sorry for someone who pays full retail for a car, at high interest, and also only gets 20% of the value of their trade in.

You can’t fix stupid.

And for the 98% of guys who are on or some other scam site that makes you pay credits to talk to a fat guy (when you think you’re talking to your fiance) in Kazan, there is nothing I can do.  Nothing, except, preaching the gospel about how the system works.  If you choose to read and believe, great.  If you don’t, you deserve the burn that will eventually come.

Russian scammers

… A quick Google search about Russian scams doesn’t even produce any legitimate hits – the scammers have introduced so many sites that you can’t even sift the good info from the bad …

I can’t remember if it was reader FC or Seeker, they’re such stellar contributors here that sometimes the comments blur in my busy schedule, but one of them said that the problem in the West is that pussy-hungry males will do anything just to get in bed with a woman.  And if she’s a Russian Woman, he will believe, say, or do just about anything for a shot in bed.

How true it is.

Each day, as I think about some of the outlandish American women in my former workplaces, I can’t help but think that the reason so many of these drama queens exist is because Men put up with their shit.  If we were to teleport them back to 1820, not a single Man (respectable man at least) would give them the time of day.  But today, we have women acting like little children and Men gush over them and reward them with gifts and affection.

And when the American Men get shat on, what do they do?  They turn East and try their broken tactics on Women who actually have to compete.  They turn to countries where the mafia control vast networks of gambling houses, drug distribution channels, and vast stables full of beautiful, but broken Slavic Women.  A pimp knows how to extract juice from a John and so the Eastern (and Western) “dating agencies” know how to extract the juice from today’s “online John.”

At least when you visit a prostitute, there is an exchange: sex for money.

In the online Russian dating world, there is no exchange.  A Man sends money to some fat guy in Siberia, believing he’s chatting with his “fiance,” and after some time, he has nothing to show for it.  A hooker in Vegas would be cheaper.

And so, how do you know if the Woman you’re talking to is legitimate?  It’s simple.

Follow these rules:

1.  If you haven’t met her.  She isn’t real.

Now, I get all the time, guys who tell me, “Sure I know her, we Skype every day.”  And when I ask when they met in person, I find out the schmuck doesn’t even have a passport.  This is not real.  If you haven’t been to her home, met her cat and her mother, you’re not in reality.  You don’t have a girlfriend.

Let me say that again.

1.  If you haven’t met her, she isn’t real.  If you haven’t physically flown to Russia/Ukraine, taken her to dinner, met her sister and her Mom.  She isn’t real.

And now, I get to my second rule, because guys fall for this one all the time.

2.  If she is asking for money, she isn’t real.

WWS recommended site: Russian Cupid Russian Cupid

Russian and Ukrainian Women are proud.  They don’t want your money.  Well, some do. The scammers.  If she is asking for money, rest assured, as soon as she gets her legal residency in your country, she will divorce you and run off with the pool guy.  If your relationship looks like this, then run, don’t walk to the nearest exit.

A Russian Woman is interested in romance and family, not your money.

So, and I’m probably repeating myself here, if she is asking for money, she isn’t real.

3.  Read her body language.

Now, #3 is a given that you’ve actually gone East to meet her.  When you hold her hand, kiss her, walk with her, is she attuned to you?  Does she listen to what you say as though your words hold all the wisdom of the world?  If she acts infatuated with you, she probably is.  Some Women can act like they are but in time, it will break down.  If she is only in it for the green card, her romance towards you is work and in time, she will get tired of it.  Is she always annoyed with you?  Doesn’t want you to give her affection

Then she isn’t real.

Russian Women love to be kissed, have their hand held, receive flowers, etc.  They love romance.  If yours is irritated and just wants to know when the visa is ready.  Well then, she isn’t real.

Let’s recap:

1.  You need to met her.

2.  Don’t send money.

3.  If her body language suggests she isn’t attracted to you, then she isn’t.

And now, lets say that you’ve followed all three of these rules and you’ve met a wonderful Woman and you’re planning on bringing her to your home country.  All should be well.  You should feel inside, very comfortable and secure that all is well.  But, lets say you don’t.  Do you have some nagging suspicion that all is not well?  If you do have some suspicion, it is possible that you’re just nervous or it is possible that your intuition is telling you something.

If this is the case, it pays to do your homework.

If you have followed my earlier posts, you have learned how to screen a Woman that you’re interested in – long before you go to meet her.  You should have done an online search of her dating profile, her photo(s), her email address and done a reverse IP address lookup.  If you haven’t done this, perhaps you should.

And assuming that you have done all of this and all should seem well, but doesn’t quite, then you might consider further investigation.  In the case of my Wife, I had NO doubt that all was above board.  I remember thinking to myself that the only way it WASN’T real was if she was a KGB spy and she was playing me for state secrets that I didn’t have.  Now, if I was a diplomat in Moscow, I would have been suspicious.  But what secrets did I have?

Indeed, when I met my Wife’s family and my soon-to-be Mother-in-law grilled me about how long I intended to wait before starting a family, I knew all was legit.

And so, maybe you’ve made a few trips to Russia or Ukraine to visit your fiance.  And all should feel well but it doesn’t.  Perhaps you should consider a background investigation.  I do not yet know of an investigator in Russia – if anyone knows of one, please post to comments or email me.  But I know of an investigator in Ukraine that I’ve received good reports from.  They can do a background check on a Woman in Ukraine and can tell you if she is what she purports to be.

Expert detective agency_b

Divorce court isn’t cheap.  And when you invite a Wife to your country, you declare to your government that you will be responsible for her welfare.  You will be legally & financially responsible for her.  When you look at that responsibility + the prospect of getting ass-raped in divorce court, you need to be 100% certain that all is legit.  If you feel it isn’t, then investigate and think with the big head and not the small.  The cost for a quick investigation is minimal when you consider the downside risk.

For those of you in the early stages of this quest, don’t give up.  Don’t be discouraged at the idea of dead ends in your search for love.  I truly believe that there is a perfect Eastern European Woman out there for every Western Man who is looking.  I believe that the only true shot at love, in today’s feminist world, is by looking East.  As feminism has become institutionalized in the West, there is NO viable alternative to looking for your bride overseas.  Once you grasp that reality, then it becomes a “when,” not an “if” that you will find an overseas bride.

Don’t be discouraged, follow the advice of those who have gone before you and use common sense.

Good luck!

WWS recommended site: Elenas Models Elena's Models


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Couples: a comparison
Dumping Spam

74 thoughts on “Don’t ever send money

  1. From an interesting site…
    Money For Nothing
    “According to Law Enforcement who investigate online romantic cons worldwide, these Dating or Sweetheart Scams follow a surprisingly consistent arc.”
    1. The Bait
    2. The Grooming Phase
    3. The Gift
    4. The Crisis
    5. The Bleed
    6. Tactics
    7. The Rebound
    8. The Recovery

  2. Can you give me the contact of the investigation service you know of in Ukraine. I have yet to find an honest one. Please send me an email, outside of your blog. Thanks

      • Scott

        I cannot find the address that the detective agency lists as their Kiev Address. there are the same address in other cities, but not Kiev, Why would this be ?????????????????

        • i think that this agency is working from home maybe? I’ve received a few comments that they were used and provided good service. As with anything whether dating agencies or buying plane tickets, pay with in a way that protects you – credit card and/or Paypal. In this way, if you get scammed, you’ll have some recourse. Sometimes I deal with agencies overseas and they only accept cash. What I do in these cases, I ask them to begin work and when I see some tangible results, I send 25% of the payment, when they finish 1/2 the project I send 25% more, 75% when they are three quarters finished and by the time they are done, we have a working trust. It is the same when I hire a contractor to fix my house who doesn’t accept credit cards.

          If you use them, please do check back and us know how it worked out for you.

  3. Bravo, Scott. On the spot advice and for FREE! Believe me guys, Scott is a Godsend for being so generous with his advice. And it didn’t cost you $10,000!!

  4. Scott, I always use to write that “western males are soooo damn desperate and sex hungry that they are willing to go 100 extra miles and lower all their standards below the threshold just to get a sniff of a pussy, ANY pussy, even if it belongs to an abusive and ugly land whale and male still has to pay a lot of money to get that ever elusive “pussy access”.
    MALES are the problem in the West, MALES!!
    Males have allowed and often promoted and supported all the modern values like political correctness, affirmative action, quota hiring, tolerance, feminism and multiculturalism!
    Thus they DESERVE what they are now getting!
    Western males think that they can BUY love thus they throw enormous amounts of money at a sexy internet photo/dating profile without ever questioning it.
    Modern western males do not possess real “male” qualities, like dignity, honesty, integrity, inner and outer strength, willingness to differ, to protect, to stand up and be counted and to lead by example! They are the product of a modern society when money rules and consumerism is a new God!

    • Great points FC…and Scott’s article was perfect!

      #4 No honey. No money.

      The western dating market is like an auction where the women call the shots…the western men keep bidding for the same garbage…instead of just leaving the event. Most westerners suffer from consumerist brain washing…they just think they can buy happiness (and eudaimonia) instead of putting in the effort. Well the men are getting exactly what they paid for!

      • well, yeah. The whole Western society is built the way that every female’s goal is to sell the access to her pussy to the highest male bidder on a dating market and at the same time males ONLY know that the ONLY way to get the pussy access key is to pave the road to the pussy with dollars and expensive gifts.
        People in the west have no idea that it’s possible to have a different life, relationships and families built on different values and priorities. Mainstream society absolutely WANTS them all to believe that there is NO other way! And sheeple gladly follow the mainstream ideas!

      • Oh yeah, I know one guy who has been “engaged” to a Ukrainian Woman for 3 years now and still hasn’t gone to bed with her.

        Shit of get off the pot. Geez…

        • Scott, that guy lives in an imaginary world he’s used to, and which has been indoctrinated and put into his head by the western mainstream propaganda.
          Just think how many western/American males live in a kind of a dream world involving an online relationship with some American or an overseas female without ever seeing that particular female? These males go to work, spend hours in traffic jams, and more hours watching porn online , while secretly jerking off when chatting to their “girlfriends” on Skype.
          Males ain’t males any longer, they’ve turned into pussies, creatures of an unknown gender who never dare to act like males, to think like males, who are willing to give up everything they have and a little extra for a sniff of a female pussy! Just a damn sniff!
          I can bet you any money that the Ukrainian lady the guy you know is “engaged” to has at least 4 or 5 similar “engagements” and is getting money from all those desperate and sex starved males! ALL OF THEM!
          And each and everyone of those males firmly believes that he’s THE ONLY ONE!!

  5. The only money I ever remember sending my wife was that which directly pertained to her fees for providing documentation for her Visa, which was after we had already spent several hundred hours on skype and stayed for a week with her and her family and becoming engaged.

    On the contrary, she would send me gift-boxes about once a month, which would look like this:

    My gift boxes were always raped by the customs people before they got to her. They would break glass jars and shred the wax candles looking for hidden items, so I would just send flowers occasionally with photoreport extra so I could get the picture of the delivery-ambush.

    Sending money is nuts.

    • I think that once you’ve met the family and you’re engaged, its OK to send money.

      I see again, and again, and again, stories of guys sending $ to Women and they have never had a passport much less have they ever been to Eastern Europe.

      • And still folks shouldn’t over exaggerate with the amounts they are sending!
        Small amounts are OK, but 1000s of dollars sound a bit too much. Better save it for your life together as a family. One will certainly need it.

      • Scott
        In general I would agree to never sending money…..especially substantial money and doubly so if she asks for it.

        I will say that I sent $100 to my fiance twice for her to purchase a gift for herself because it would cost me the same or more to send her some decent flowers through one of the agencies or sites. I knew better than to send a lot and I could never imagine sending a large amount. But $100 bucks is nothing and less than I would spend on an average date here for dinner and perhaps a movie. But I would never suggest it and would tell anyone who does to be prepared for it to be a loss.

        My fiance later told me she did not want me to send her anything because she never wanted me to have any doubt of her sincerity. These girls know the scams going on. They know the games. I have met several who tell me all about them. A part of me wants to feel bad for these guys who lose thousands before ever meeting them. But another part wants to grab them and ask….what the hell were you thinking?

        A sincere self respecting woman from any country would never ask for it prior to meeting.

        I have since spent time with my girl in Ukraine and we are happy and planning our next visit. I did not get to meet her parents but have spoken to her Mom via VK. I did my research prior to sending anything and researched her and her friends and family. It is not really that difficult.

        I guess my thoughts are to not do anything for your EE lady than you would do for one in your own country. Would any of you guys send or spend thousands on a girl you just met on eharmony? Perhaps you would and if you dont care and have it to spare them more power to you. But as I am a guy of average means I wouldnt.

  6. I am actually engaged to a girl who lives in Kiev, and yes, I have met her several times. I even took her to Thailand for two full weeks last year, and I met her brother, her brother’s fiance, and some of her best friends this past February. Not ONCE has she asked me to send over money. The only time I actually did send over some money was to help pay for her ticket to Thailand (and even then, she never asked me for it….she kept making excuses why she couldn’t go, and I offered to assist paying for it…and even then, she paid for the majority of the ticket).

    I plan on visiting my fiance several more times before having her come to Chicago. She is perfectly fine with that. And to give you folks an idea…I’m 29 years old, she’s about 26. Good luck finding a 26 year old American girl who is looking for a serious relationship LOL.

    • I like your age difference with your lady. 3 years sounds about right to me.
      Anything over 10 years will sooner or later cause problems in a relationship.
      And YES, it’s almost impossible to find a 26 y.o. North American female willing to have a stable relationship these days.

      • FC,

        I mostly agree with this…
        And YES, it’s almost impossible to find a 26 y.o. North American female willing to have a stable relationship these days.

        …but I have seen plenty of the marriage zone phenomena happen.
        Selfish girls cashing in and doing a 180 in their mid 20s to early 30s, from party girl and/or BS liberal social activist to married and pregnant/soon to be soccer mom BS social conservative in less than a 2 year span. Life is so convenient for a western gal.

        I have doubts this applicable to non-western women…
        “Anything over 10 years will sooner or later cause problems in a relationship.”
        …even in many parts of Italy and France, men 7 years older than their wives is not uncommon…also they rank pretty high as the oldest (in age) first time fathers. The man should be older and more mature in the relationship.

        • This one about western women changing their views in a span of 2-3 years is a bit iffy though.
          Yes, there are some women who might go from “zero to hero” and suddenly turn into loving mothers and family oriented personalities. BUT…. this is and will always be an exception which only confirms the general rule: an overwhelming majority of western women have one goal and dream in life-to sell the access to their pussies to the highest male bidder on a dating market.

          Yes, the man should be older and more mature in a relationship, but 10+ years age difference means “different generations” and I shouldn’t be telling you how new generation looks, thinks and acts like;)

          • I agree…
            — —
            “zero to hero” and suddenly turn into loving mothers and family oriented personalities.
            — —
            I meant changing from one mask to another but it’s the same selfish goblin behind the mask.

            Men age like wine…
            — —
            “Yes, the man should be older and more mature in a relationship, but 10+ years age difference means “different generations” and I shouldn’t be telling you how new generation looks, thinks and acts like;)”
            — —
            Then that means the men should hunt elsewhere. If a man wants youthfulness or children…her age is an important consideration.

      • Thanks a lot! And for everybody’s info, I actually did use Elena’s Models. I do recommend Russian Cupid as well as there are real women on there. Having said that…

        I have met a fair share of women in those sites who are real, but they are quite evil sadly enough. I met one who was extremely attractive and nice at the beginning…she picked me up at the airport at 4 AM in Almaty and brought me to her home where she gave me a massive amount of food, and extremely well cooked. She let me stay over her place and the next two days she gave me a full tour of Almaty. By the end of the second day, her mood changed and she asked me to leave…so I did. A few months later I found out why….turns out she was married previously and had a kid, and was trying to hide this from me (her kid was being taken care of by her parents at the time). She later flew to Turkey and decided to live there, and left behind her kid for her parents to take care of. Long story short, total nutcase and I feel sorry for whichever man ends up with her.

        So yes, even though there are some amazing girls on these sites, there are also some extremely screwed up ones as well. Take your time to know them, don’t rush anything, etc.

        • Sounds like she was simultaneously dating a few Western Men at once. One guy, proposed for her to come and live with him in Turkey and she left.

          It is easy to strive for a relationship that is based solely on love but in much of the world, especially in economically challenged places, often, economics triumphs love.

          And for some Men, this works OK for them.

  7. Hello from the back in the US.

    Scott is spot on here and WM need to cover their a$$ when looking. With things not getting any better in Ukraine, more and more women are starting to act more and more like WW. They are selling the pus to the highest bidder, so be careful.

    It seems the older, 35 and up are more traditional. You will find younger traditional women in the smaller cities, so stay away from the larger cities.

    I am a little frustrated in my process to get my papers for Ukraine. After traveling back to the US, then to the Ukraine Embassy in Washington DC, the Ukraine Government wants more money to process my paperwork through.

    The relationship is great, just cannot wait to get back. Crossing my fingers and trying to get this accomplished without spend a crap ton more money.

    Good article Scott.

    • Shit, I should’ve helped you from the very beginning.
      I think it’s a lot easier to do it all in a smaller city like the one I’m in right now.
      How long do you think you’ll stay in the US? And when are you planning to come back?
      If you want, I can further investigate the option in this city and may be it could be wise for you to process everything here after your return.
      Just let me know what you think.

      P.S. Could you tell me how things look like at the Ukrainian embassy at the moment and what do they want from you??

      • Hello! Yes, I am alive and somewhat going crazy.

        Trying to do this moving process has driven me crazy. 2 Trips to Washington DC… worthless.

        Here what is going on. Back ground check was not an issue. The rest was like a job interview.

        What will I do for work?
        Where will I live?
        Do I someone in Ukraine?

        They wanted copies of my DD214. College diploma. Did a medical check to make sure I do not have any diseases.

        Seems like they, the Ukrainian Gov is trying to put a tax on me moving there. This is outside of the processing fee. If I want to start a business and hire Ukrainians great, but if I plan to work for a company there, not so great.

        Honestly wish I knew WTF is the issue. I was looking at some work in Poland. I went by the Embassy, while in Washington setup an appointment and was seem. The process for getting a work and resident permit is so simple for Poland.

        Now about this and sending money. Do not even think about sending money. I would even go as far to say not until there is a ring on her finger.

        Then there is the whole wanting to leave their country, family and friends. The people in Ukraine see Westerners as being wealthy and maybe a free ride. Get to know the woman throughly and her deep desires. She may tell you she does not want to leave, but listen to her closely. Words are a keep thing and you will learn about what she wants for herself. Will have nothing to do with you, just what she wants. Her expectations might be completely a dream and not reality.

        If a woman comes out and tells you she wants to leave and move to the US, not any other country, just the US. Watch your a$$.

        FC, I will be back in country on the 30th of July.

        • Holy molly what a story, Bryan!! Good to know that you are alive and well;)

          It was kinda expected that Ukrainian embassy would give you a hard time and would do nothing about your application.
          Millions of people are leaving Ukraine every damn year and they still make it so damn hard for those few who still want to come and settle in Ukraine.
          I honestly recommend you to move and settle in Poland if you have a chance.
          I’ve had several offers to move and work there, but it’s just not my kind of a country.

          You know what, next week I’ll come by and see a friend of mine who knows a lot about this whole Ukrainian immigration process and will inform you by e-mail.

          July 30? There is a possibility that I will not be in Ukraine by that time.
          We’ll see. Stay in touch and I’ll let you know about the Immigration thing next week.

          • Hey FC? I am bringing my family to Ukraine for a summer visit. I’d like to call you and say hi. Can you please send Scott your phone number and email address and I’ll contact you privately. We’ll arrive in the last week of June and depart the 2d week of Jul.

          • No problem, Rodney! You are welcome to call me any time.
            You can e-mail me at:
            I’ve created this e-mail address today for YOU.
            Looking forward to your e-mail message and I’ll immediately let you know my phone number.

    • Just wondering , did you tell the Ambassodor , that the US , is helping Ukraine with money and weapons ??

      And what did he replied ???

      And he still wants more money from you ……… ????
      Good grief ………….


      PS just posted on the WWS Forum

  8. Hi guys!

    Writing this on a sunny morning in my apartment in Zaporozhye in South-Eastern Ukraine. I arrived yesterday evening on my fifth visit to see my girlfriend after three flights: Jersey, Channel Islands – London Gatwick – Kiev – Dnepropetrovsk (which is in the process of losing the “petrovsk” part of its name as part of the “desovietising” of the country) and then taxi to Zaporozhye.

    I totally agree that you should never send money to a girl you have never actually met. Until you have met them in person and been to their home city and home, met their family and/or friends (and yes, I met the cat), you cannot in all honesty say you have a proper relationship. Some would argue that you don’t have a “proper” relationship until you’ve had sex with them, but don’t expect to sleep with them on the first meeting (there can be a concern that you might be a “sex tourist”). The genuine ones take their relationships very seriously and won’t jump into bed with the first Western man they meet.

    Once you have a proper relationship, then I think it is okay to help them financially, but this doesn’t mean 1,000s of dollars a month, for goodness sake (and “Boris” is laughing all the way to the bank!!). I send mine 400$ and I also pay for her English lessons (100$ per term). But I never sent her any money before we actually met! On this visit, I brought over chocolates for her mum (who has a sweet tooth).

    Also, as Scott said, Russian and Ukrainian women love to shop, so don’t keep the credit card under lock and key. The genuine ones will appreciate you buying nice clothes (for example) for them, but won’t make over the top or unreasonable demands.

    Any relationship is a challenge and needs to be worked at. Dating an Eastern European woman is even more of a challenge because:-
    a) the distance factor; and
    b) the language and culture differences (it is very easy for misunderstandings to arise, even when your girlfriend’s English reasonably good or better).

    The way I look at all of this is that even if things don’t work out long-term (and of course I sincerely hope that they do), I will have experienced a country and a culture that I wouldn’t otherwise have done and I will have had a great time into the bargain.

    So my advice to all of you out there reading the posts on this admirable site is pay heed to the advice on the site and do your homework to avoid being sucked into the quagmire of “Boris’s” and, for goodness sake, dress decently when you do meet your girl!

    Have a good one!

    • What no blue jean and a wife beater?

      Joking of course. Dress nice, be yourself and for God sakes, do not flash money around.

      Slavic women do like to shop, but they are the best shoppers I have ever seen. These women think clearly, look for the best deal before doing anything.

      There is a but in this though. The younger, lower 30’ish and below have a love of money (thank you western TV), so be very very careful with these women.

      I can tell you, it is the man’s choice to send money or not, but a woman really interested in you will make sure you are careful with your money. She will not want you to spend spend for anything. Even calling her on the phone from the US, she will be concerned it cost too much. OMG, I get this all the time, so we Skype and WhatsApp for hours. I wanted to purchase her an air conditioner for her flat, but she flat out said no!

      Sex is another thing. These women do not use this as a tool, well better the older 30’ish and up will not. The younger women will screw your brains out, if it gets them something, trust me :P

      But the older traditional women will, in time will take very good care of you :))) But it will take time, because they want to make sure you are true and going to be a good husband to her. You will find the older women, will tell you how many men they have had in their life. It is a pride thing for them. She is showing and telling you she is loyal and does not sleep around. I know, hard thing to get your head around coming from the west.

      FC, I am going crazy dealing with the Embassy. They are requesting information, as too what I will job for work or will I be starting a company there to hire Ukrainian workers. Then there is the whole thing about bring my motorcycle into the country and paying a tax for this as well. Money money. Should have just come worried about this after I got there. This is crazy.

      Starting to think Poland would have been the better option. Much simpler to go there and live and work.

      Where are you thinking for moving too?

      • Yeah, Bryan, it ain’t easy now to come to Ukraine and settle here even temporarily.
        I spoke with a friend of mine and he’s gonna come up with a framework as to how it’s possible and doable in your case by Tuesday next week. And trust me-he knows his “shit”;)
        Yes, it’s a hassle when you bring a car or a bike to Ukraine, which involves a lot of fees, duties and other payments;)
        I still insist that Poland is a way to go not only because the immigration process is simple. There are many other factors in play too.
        Where am I thinking to move?) Let’s put it this way-one country in Central America:)

  9. I have one good tip for y’all North American males who happen to have an extra $ 10 000 US to spend and want to have some fun and sex BUT who ain’t really serious yet about building a family.
    Just go find yourself a good North American hooker in a city you live in and save yourself all the hassle and 1000s of hard earned US $$$ on a trip overseas. At least do not come to Ukraine. You’ll spend all your money on nothing and return home disappointed.
    I do not know how Russia is looking these days but you ain’t gonna get nothing for your money in Ukraine.
    You want to buy passion, high heels and minis? Then turn to Canadian or American hookers. At least you’ll know what y’all will be getting and can be in control of the whole “selection” process.
    I know that my words kinda contradict the main message of this site but they are based on conversations I hear daily during my classes, hear on the buses, on the streets etc, based on what I observe everywhere in Ukraine these days. I’m analyzing female behavior (and male for this matter too) and I’m seeing exactly what I used to see in Canada 15 years ago-same emotions, reactions, attitudes, relationship trends and the fact that people are becoming scared of real life interactions, intimacy and personal contact.
    It’s amazing how one country can go downhill in mere 2-3 years and people can turn into brainless sheeple and zombies….

    • FC for just over the year, I have been coming to Ukraine to see the lady I was interested in, I could not agree with you more.

      I am not sure, if it is the issue with the situation in the country right now or too much western tv, but something has gone major has gone wrong.

      I think one problem is women here are seeing western movies and tv lives and think this is what live should be like. I number of women and men, that I have spoken with all want to run to the US or Canada. The women here are getting smart about how to escape Ukraine and the system here. I had one lady tell me, “she wanted to come to the US and no other place”. She also told me about her friend, who married an American guy and after a few years divorced him, just to marry a Ukrainian guy she met living in Miami. Now, how did she find this Ukrainian guy living in Miami, when she was living in New York. She was looking and had this planned from the beginning. The American guy was just a tool she used to escape.

      The other thing, I hear is women doing whatever they can to trap an American man into marrying them or getting them to the US.

      For example, I will look at my situation. Met her a year ago. At first she was all in favor of me coming to live in Ukraine, but something changed around January of this year. She talked about living in the US and having a baby. I am not against having a baby with a lady, but she is 44 and has never been married. Through conversations, I found out she has many friends, that married and moved to the US. She talked about where they live, what they are driving. She even started talking about coming to Europe on vacations. Things were just not adding up and I think my brain started see western thinking in her. Sad but true.

      I will say, I did not give her money and for this I am thankful. She did ask about getting a better apartment, while waiting on getting a visa to the US. Then there was the trip to Montenegro. Her motives just did not seem genuine. Too many red flags and bad thoughts. Plus, the fact, everything I did on my end to move here.

      FC you are correct. People are turning into sheep by watching too much western tv.

      There are good women here, but just not in the larger cities. I am here in Kremenchuk right now enjoying things. I will say there are a lot of beautiful women here, it is just finding a good one.

      Within 3 to 5 years, it will no longer be worth anyone coming here to find someone. It is getting very difficult and will just become impossible.

      • Yeah, Bryan, you’ve been coming to Ukraine for just over 1 year, and I’ve been experiencing this for 8+ years now ;)
        And I can compare everything on a daily, monthly and yearly basis.
        The problem is complex: many smart and educated people have left and many more keep leaving the country for good every single day and will never come back, western TV is making its inroads into the Ukrainian media market with a mandatory requirement for any Ukrainian channel to broadcast at least 30% of western content and the education has become non existent with more and more people being simply illiterate.
        It’s a combination of all the factors above.

        True, many women watch Hollywood brainwashing movies and they immediately want the “life like in the movie”, with all the perks and benefits, and without moving a finger in order to accomplish anything themselves. They are rapidly becoming just like North American females, with exactly the same demands and visions and without any understanding the GIVING comes BEFORE RECEIVING!! Ukrainian women these days are totally unwilling to give!! They only want to RECEIVE!

        And YES, they all see the West as some kind of a paradise, a Magic Pill, and all want to move there! But nobody wants to work, nobody wants to make an effort or possesses qualifications and skills in order to find a meaningful job thus their only Joker is a successful marriage and “milking” of their future husbands.
        American males are just an easy ticket to the West, a “freeway” to the Citizenship. Ukrainian women know perfectly that American/Canadian males are desperate and sex starving and they sure know how to play this card in their own favor.

        Again, people are turning into sheeple not ONLY because of the influence coming from the Western TV. The lack of a proper education is contributing a lot more to this downhill movement trend.

        And YES, I agree again that in 3 to 5 years it’ll become impossible to find a difference between a Ukrainian and a North American female.

        • Sad to hear FC…
          If what you said is true…maybe the guys should use their hard earned cash on some “fun” at home and go overseas during their free time to assess the true value of potential wives.
          If the guys did that then maybe they would not have that smell and look of sex starved hunger…and make better decisions while overseas.

          • Spot on, Seeker!! Spot on!!!
            North American males should not spend loads of their money and tons of their time on futile attempts to get laid in Ukraine.
            They should be very careful and able to separate “having sex and fun, and getting laid” and “looking for a solid and evolving relationship”.
            You want “sex and fun”? Then stay home, find yourself a good looking and uninhibited hooker and enjoy your time in the comfort of your own home.
            But if you want A FAMILY then the likelihood of building one with an Eastern European lady is still higher than with an American/Canadian one.
            And just like Bryan wrote , all this will change in 3 to 5 years, when local Ukrainian women will become even more brainwashed and stupidified as well as when western values will gain even more ground here.

          • To be a gentleman. Getting laid here is not an issue. It is finding that woman, that will not screw your brains out after a few dates.

            There are still good women here. But the age of these women, seem to be from 37 and up. I met a lady here in Kremenchuk, who is divorced and had been for 8 years. She explained to me, that men are always looking for a younger beautiful girl in their 20’s.

            This woman is 40 and I wish, that I could post her picture here. She is 5’2″, about 105 and extremely beautiful. Very kind, helpful and just nice to speak with. Her English is not great, but she tries.

            So, there are still good women here. It just seems the younger the lady, the more westernized they are becoming.

            This lady took me to a picnic with her family and I met her 34 year old sister. She told me a little story about her sister wanting a dog. The sister husband had purchased the sister a new iPhone SE and she sold the phone (not telling the husband) and took the money and bought a dog. I asked why and the answer was something you would see in a western woman. She did this because she wanted the dog, even though her husband did not want a dog.

            The sister is very pretty and the husband is a big guy, if you get my point here. He let her get away and did not say anything, because he is whipped. IT seems like his balls are in a jar and only given to him, when she wants him to use them.

            It is not impossible to find a good women, it is getting harder with each day. Western men need to start looking towards Russia.

          • Yes, Bryan, getting laid is not really an issue here.
            You’ve made a very, very, very good point about finding a woman who will NOT screw your brains after a few dates! And THIS issue seems to be getting bigger and bigger.
            And again, I totally agree that the age of those few remaining “good” ladies is ranging from 37 and up. Not even 35 any longer, 37 sounds more reasonable and descriptive.

            I beg to disagree a bit with that lady who claimed that all men in Ukraine were looking for a young and beautiful girl in her 20s. Not ALL men, but RICH men! Yes, I’m talking about those few who tend to have all the money, nice cars, apartments, can afford to wine and dine the girl, shower her with all kinds of gifts. But the difference with North America is very visible-in America a rich male does that to ONE girl, since trying to do that with a handful of them will break his bank in a matter of months, whereas in Ukraine everything is cheaper, a lot cheaper , and a rich man can easily date 3-4 girls at the same time and just decide which day of the week he’d like to spend with this or that girl.
            Correct, again, the younger the lady is the more westernized she’s gonna be! I can’t spot no difference when I see 18-29 year olds here in Ukraine, they all look exactly like girls that age in any Canadian city!! No damn difference, just a total lack of intellect, baggy clothes, often dyed hair, they never wear high heels any longer and their bodies are soft with fat stomach and thighs.
            The story about an IPhone turned dog is hilarious!!! That man is an exact copy of an American or Canadian male who’s willing to tolerate anything just to get access to that ever elusive female pussy!

            Yes, Russia is a very good choice indeed! Forget about western/central Russia, go East, good folks! Try Vladivostok, Khabarovsk, Novosibirsk, Tomsk, Irkutsk, Omsk!! That’s where you still can find genuine females!!

  10. I think this thread is missing another very good point…..If when you are planning a trip and you need an interpreter….Insist on using your own!! The going rate for interpreters through a reputable group there is $15 per hour or $60 per day. One of the major ringleaders in the scams are the interpreters there.

    I have been to Russian and Ukraine several times over the year. I had afailed marriage to a Russian woman (who was legit) and am currently engaged to a Ukrainian lady. I know personally and have met many women there who play these scams and the central figure outside of an organized agency is the interpreter who is usually a guy. For the women who want to play the game a male interpreter is golden for them. Many of the articles out there tell you that the women actually do not earn much writing letters or playing these games but you have to realize that it is relative. These women I have met in one or two days can earn more than they would make at a regular job in a month. You can imagine the appeal this would have to anyone to leave their morals (if they have them) behind. One interpreter I have met splits everything with his clients 50/50. And if he is working with multiple women the economies of scale can rack up a very nice living for them there.

    So if a woman you are talking with is insisting on using someone they know even if they tell you it is a relative it should raise a very big red flag. Go through an interpreter agency especially one which accepts credit cards or paypal as a means of payment so if you do have any problems you have a means of complaint and a refund of your money. If you are concerned about using a card with a company there then you can always get a prepaid card as further protection.

    These scams are rampant there and are not just in the big cities. Yes, I would say that the better women are to be found in the smaller communities but they are everywhere.

    I have personally heard the stories from the women themselves and seen it in action. Guys, don’t let your little head do the leading. There are many, many wonderful women still to meet but be smart. Don’t allow yourself to be guilt tripped or your desire to be chivalrous to overwhelm your instincts.

    • This:

      “So if a woman you are talking with is insisting on using someone they know even if they tell you it is a relative it should raise a very big red flag.”

      • Hi Scott, Yes this is a very big red flag as I am sure you know. I just got back from Ukraine and had conversations there about this. I know a few of the ladies there doing this and one of the interpreters. For some of the decent fella’s out there who get caught up in it I feel sorry for them. But I also got shown pictures of some of the western freaks who get this done to them. Guys in their 50’s and 60’s sending them pictures of their dicks and pictures of them dressed up in ladies lingerie and their other fetishes. Of course I know this goes on, but damn!!! And I am sure these kind of guys are some of the ones complaining about how they got scammed for a shit ton of money.

        The story from the girls is always the same too….these guys send them cash….$500 plus a month plus gifts and such. I know one gal there who renovated her apartment fully just with this money.

        I think that the rules are pretty simple:
        1.Never send money and if you do do after knowing having met her and developed a relationship…keep it simple and small. Guys do not understand how far $100 will go there with the current exchange rate. And with the average monthly Salary there at between $150 and $350 any self respecting woman would not need more. It is a gift or gesture…not alimony or child support.

        2.If she will not give you her real address after a period she is not real. Could be exceptions but in general there should be little hesitation.

        3.If you meet her and she wants to take you shopping….she isn’t real.

        4.If she does not want to Skype often…she isn’t real.

        5.If she will not let you use your own interpreter she isn’t real

        6. If you do not meet or talk to the family within a few visits she isn’t real. Don’t trust meeting her friends. The scammers I know will meet with you as a group but they are all in on it.

        7.and if the body language and actions are not there she definitely isn’t real

        • I think you have to be very careful about how you approach this whole issue, so you don’t let these concerns get out of hand and possibly kill a potential relationship before it’s had a chance to get off the ground. Certainly we all agree that the bottom line is never send money to someone you haven’t met.

          But assuming that you have an established relationship (and I write this in the Lviv chocolate café in Dnepro, formerly Dnepropetrovsk, after the latest visit to see my girlfriend), I see no issue with helping them financially (obviously not to a stupid degree). And guys don’t be too cheap with the credit card! ALL women love to shop. The genuine ones won’t take you to the cleaners – we walked out of one shop yesterday when she saw the price of the pullover she wanted to get for her son. She really liked it, but the price was exorbitant.

          Meeting friends and relatives is important. We often meet one of her best friends from school (and I have been on holiday to Azov with her and her husband and their 4-year-old daughter). I also met the previous cat (which sadly died on the day I arrived on one of my previous visits) and I was with her when she chose the next one.

          Yes you have to keep your wits about you, but the thing to remember is at the end of the day you are trying to establish a relationship with a woman, and it is subject to all the pitfalls and emotional tug-o-wars of all such relationships, but in this case further complicated by the fact that you are dealing with a different culture and with someone whose native language is not your own. Of course in the end it may not go the distance – that is true of any relationship – but go in with your eyes open and enjoy the ride (and I don’t just mean that in the way some of you are probably thinking :)); at least you are dealing with a genuine woman and not some androgynous creature with its sad “Western” ideals.

          • Hi SF, I agree with you to not let the paranoia get out of hand. What I am saying is to use some common sense. Yes all ladies love to shop and some small gift here and there is normal in any relationship. I think the key word you used was “established” relationship.I am sad to say that I know way too much about this subject. Luckily for me I was not the victim.
            In an established relationship where there is love and affection going both ways one should be fine. What I know does not come second hand but straight from the some of the people there pulling the scams. And they are good at what they do. There is no need to not be “cheap” when in EE. The exchange rate is great right now and you can have a wonderful time very, very inexpensively there. If someone questions themselves about if they are getting taken I would tell them ask themselves this…..have you kissed her?…and I dont mean a peck on the cheek but a real passionate kiss? EE women are very passionate and expressive to their man. I could write a book with the stories I have been told by the ladies who do this. The ones I know target guys in their 50’s and 60’s. These guys are sending them money constantly. Several of them have been to Ukraine on trips and think they are in relationships. But they are not and they are getting milked. It is sad and amazing to me at the same time.But what Scott says is completely correct…. Especially on the body language side. The real ones may have the values of the 1950’s but do not hold back on the physical side. The guys I know are sending the money and then go and meet with them and spend some more. And they have never even had a real kiss more or less sex with the girl.
            I would say do what you want. But the basic rules guys talk about in this blog are normal and should apply to women anywhere. No self respecting woman anywhere would ask for money, or even hint about it anywhere in the world outside of a committed relationship. And I will repeat that there is no need to spend a lot of money there right now to have a good time together. I just came back a couple of weeks ago and am going again in December. And other than for groceries we hardly do any shopping at all….except when the airline lost my luggage and I had to buy myself clothes…hahaha.

  11. John & SF,

    You both nailed it here. I have seen the WM over in Ukraine flashing the money, bragging about this and that. It is amazing to see the idiots think they are getting somewhere with the women. But all that is happening is a milking.

    A point is these women just do not sleep around, kiss or hold hands with just every man. They are picky, but once they have their man chosen, things change for the better. But one things WM need to get right in their heads is to not “go for the kill” within a few days. If a women is ready to bed a man after a few days, this should cause caution for the man. There is another motive going on here.

    These women are the best shoppers I have never seen. They will travel shop to shop looking for the best deal before making a purchase. Here is a quote, “a women should always look well-groomed, no matter she is married or not)))” They always do look very good, unlike the “Walmart” photos we joke about here in the US.

    My Ira had surgery a few weeks ago and will not be able to work for a month. I trusted her about the surgery, plus she FaceTimed me from her hospital bed. Was crazy seeing the IV tubes in her arms, but she put on makeup and pulled back her hair. I told her I would send some money over to help her out. She told me this is not right, because we are not married or engaged. I sent the money anyway and got a crying FaceTime from her about how thankful she was for me being in her life.

    Biggest thing I can tell men is to stop thinking with their little head. Listen to these women closely and a WM will find a woman like no other in his life.

    • I agree with what you say Bryan. Btw, us Brits are suffering a little on the old dollar-pound exchange rate, thanks to those idiots who voted for “Brexit”. I am now getting 30 UAH to the pound, whereas before it was 34. Having said that, when I first came here (2013), it was only 10 to the pound – I suppose you can thank the war in the east for that!

      Anyway, back to topic. WM does need to get it into his head that, if he’s interested in a long-term relationship, junior most likely will have to stay in concealment for at least the first visit. The genuine girls here are often worried that the WM who has come to see them is a sex tourist, only interested in one thing.

      The passion isn’t necessarily going to be there at the start of the relationship either. Yes, they will hold hands in public and kiss on the cheeks. And I think that sometimes they find it difficult to talk about sex. I am referring here more to the mature woman than the 20 or 30-year old, and I think some of what I’m saying harks back to old Soviet era repressed attitudes towards sex (and it will also depend on the girl’s background – where she’s from, etc). We take such things as sex education in schools for granted, but there was a time, not very long ago, when that just didn’t happen here, and probably not in the home either. While I can visit my girlfriend in her apartment, I wouldn’t be able to bed down there for the duration of a visit, primarily because of what her mother (and to a lesser extent the neighbours, and possibly the cat) would think : “but dear you aren’t married!” A friend of mine had a similar experience with a former Ukrainian girlfriend.

      I think that in many cases WM has a mental image of Eastern European Woman as a rampant, passionate sex goddess (pushed by the media), and can feel very frustrated, if not downright baffled, by the degree of coolness that can characterise particularly the early stages of the relationship, leading to the inevitable question “is she into me?”

      But then, when you are with her, elegant, sophisticated and well dressed, and she compliments you on what you are wearing, you feel a million bucks (or pounds) and that and other little things make you realise that you made the right move by seeking your soulmate here.

      • If western males just want sex, then they should save their hard earned money and simply get a good hooker without wasting 1000s of $$ for a flight ticket, accommodation, meals etc etc.
        Western hookers are 10 times better in pure sex than Russian or Ukrainian females.

        Almost any Ukrainian female aged 35 and younger is now lost. They think, dress and act like their western counterparts, plus they are often uneducated or even illiterate.
        I can at least have a conversation with a western female no matter how feminized she is. She’ll at least be able to talk about things and issues which seems to be a huge problem for Ukrainian females these days.

        • Yes, cheaper to go to Amsterdam for a weekend if it’s just for sex.
          I’m lucky – I can have conversations with mine about important issues.

          • Amsterdam is too far. Any American or Canadian male can find tons of hookers just for sex on Backpages in almost any city in USA or Canada.

      • SF I think you are right on several points here. First, yes I would think that different generations are going respond physically to someone in different ways. Also if she has children or not. There are many factors I believe. And if no money is being exchanged it really does not matter. And by no money I mean not just giving her money but also over priced interpreters, pick-ups from the airport, shopping, and any other sort of thing like this. There are many ways to get fleeced for money without directly asking. They dont have to give you sex. And more power to you if you are both comfortable like this and follow this path.

        I say these things because I know of one commentator on this web-site who must have been reading all of these articles and threads but I also know he was getting milked for thousands. After reading some of his comments it dawned on me who he was talking with…or who he thought he was talking with. I happen to know the group of people he got tangled up with and from my understanding he has sent “her” thousands. He met her and toured the town, except the one he met was not the one writing the letters. I dont know if he used their interpreter or not or how else they got him but I know for a fact he was taken. And from my understanding it was no small amount of money. But worse than that is the heartache that happens. The money can be replaced but emotional scars from getting scammed last a long time folks. This is why it is important to keep the money out of the equation. So that there is never a doubt in your mind that she is being genuine with you. If you have spent a lot of time corresponding with someone and then go meet them and the chemistry is building but you are not to the point of intimacy yet then so be it…But if you talk with someone for months and have been sending them money and go and meet them and then continue to send them money and there has been no chemistry and intimacy on any level you need to wake up guys. Even if she is real this is not a solid foundation for a good relationship.
        I so wanted to contact this guy and let him know what he was into. But it was too late. I will not name him here because I know he already feels like crap right now. No need for “I told you so’s”.
        I would tell you that the very virtues which make EE women so desirable are the same virtues which make the scammers so good at what they do! They are smart, beautiful, and know how to manipulate a guy…for better or worse. Of course you should love and adore the person you want to be with but dont put them on a pedestal so high to think they are a saint. Not only will you open yourself up to serious pain but also she will never respect you as a man.

        For guys just looking for a piece of ass go knock yourselves out. You want to blow your wad on the other side of the world then you get whats coming to you.

        However, if you want something real then follow the title of this article…”Dont ever send money” until you are deep into a serious intimate relationship and then only what is needed to get them to you.

      • Yes, I agree that many guys in the west have an idea that EE women are some kind of sex goddess. It has been promoted throughout the media and at the end of the day is ridiculous. They are normal women with normal needs and desires. I will say…from experience…that they are not generally as sexually uptight as your typical church girl from the Bible belt in America. But this is my experience…could be different for everyone.

        The good ladies want something real. And they want an emotional connection. They are very feminine and loving and take care of their man like nothing I experienced prior…(which is a sad thing). But I would tell you that prior to making the expence of the trip you should be talking via Skype online. I would hope that you would begin to feel a little chemistry online prior to going and seeing them. I would not go to EE for a “blind date” with someone you do not feel has chemistry with you. Yes it could change when you actually meet. But it is a pricey gamble. Spend the time to get to know them first online. There will probably be for most a couple of days when you first meet where you both have to adjust from the internet reality of the person to the actual reality…..from 2D to 3D so to speak.
        Even so…even after this meeting still do not send money until you have been intimate. I guarantee that the guy from this site I referred to in my other comment felt really good and taken care of on his trip and probably got a kiss on the cheek. But she was scamming him just the same.

        LISTEN TO SCOTT!!!!

        • Hi John. Yes I agree with you – they are normal women with normal desires and all the variability that entails; it is always a little dangerous to generalise. And it is vital to talk on Skype before any meeting in the flesh, so to speak. Funnily enough on this trip (I am writing this in the lobby of the Hotel Kaspiy in Dnepro waiting for the taxi to the airport), my girlfriend said that one guy she spoke to in the past looked completely different on Skype from his profile photo (she took it no further after that).

        • Man, some of these comments in this thread are making my head roll and is making my Ukrainian fiance laugh pretty hard. I agree with you John, and let me explain…

          There are many, many women in Ukraine. And surprise! Some of them happen to be terrible people while some others are just like American women. And then there are girls like my fiance.

          I didn’t propose to my fiance the day I met her. As a matter of fact, when I first met her in person, we both decided to simply be friends. I didn’t imagine at the time I would be flying back and forth from Chicago to Kiev to be with somebody, and she wasn’t interested in spending months on end alone in her apartment. About a year after I met her, I was quite bored with dating women on Tinder while in Chicago, so I asked her if she wanted to travel with me in Thailand for 10 days.

          She agreed to it, and this was right around the time she broke up with her then boyfriend. After we agreed to it, we both flew to Thailand three months later. I agreed to cover the hotel and food expenses while she covered her airline tickets.

          Long story short…when we got to Thailand, it was a near disaster at first. She wasn’t at all interested in being in another relationship, and she assumed we would just be friends like before. She flipped out when I had only gotten one bed in the hotel room and she was threatening to fly back to Kiev the next morning! I had to beg her to stay and just explore Thailand with me.

          She agreed and in the next few days, she became quite relaxed around me. She didn’t kiss me until day 6, and her clothes didn’t come off until day 8. She held out for an extremely long time….most American girls would’ve banged me by day 2 guaranteed. It was because of her being conservative did I realize she had some very good morals, and that’s what made me fly back to Kiev a few months later to visit her.

          Moral of the story: getting a good girl takes quite a bit of work and a LOT of time. A good girl just won’t fall into your arms in one week. From the time I visited my fiance to now, it’s been well over two years. The immigration lawyers I hired expect her to be in Chicago by March or April 2017. I plan on doing two to three more visits between now and when she’s coming to Chicago (the final trip…I will be accompanying her to the US).

          So if folks are not willing to wait a bit and spend a bit of money (plane tickets, hotels, etc. start to add up), then please don’t fly to Ukraine. It just won’t be worth it.

          • Thanks… I have to laugh sometimes too and some of the stuff I read. I’m actually currently stuck in traffic trying to get home this evening and saw this reply. I was cruising YouTube on my phone and found this girl from Slovenia who is absolutely cracking me up talking about why she’s not a feminist. I’ll post a link here for one of her videos but she has several others that are pretty darn funny.

          • Chicago. That is a very long flight and I thought from Atlanta was long HAHA!

            Not sure everyone’s age chat here right now, but I think we all have had our share of bad dating adventures in the west and the UK.

            I can say finding the right woman has been interesting. I want to move to Ukraine, but I found the money talks there only. What a major pain these days, but one would think it easier with so many people migrating to other countries, but the war has pushed many people to the major cities.

            If a man a WM is lucky enough to win one of these lady’s heart he is extremely lucky. In my trips around the world, I have never found the qualities, these women have anywhere else. Slavic women are amazing, as well as, beautiful inside and out.

            SF – надійний політ

            The language lessons are slow paying off.

          • Спасибі Bryan. Я намагаюся дізнатися як російських, так і українських!
            I am now at Kiev, waiting for the 10.00 UIA to London Gatwick. From there I fly to Jersey in the Channel Islands, but that at least is a short flight (although I have to cool my heels at Gatwick for a while). I imagine that flying to Ukraine from the States is a pretty long haul at the best of times!

            I know from what my girlfriend’s best friend has to put with from her husband how it can be for some of the women here. I’m not saying there’s violence in this particular case, but he does nothing to make life easier for her. And when I visit and she sees how I am with my girlfriend, it rams her situation home to her all the more.

          • @ Sinclair Forest

            Well, there is a lot of domestic violence/hidden domestic violence going on in Ukraine. A lot of it is never reported to anyone , even to the closest relatives.
            And women somehow become scared of a normal attitude, respect and mutual understanding.
            Try that with an overwhelming majority of Ukrainian females and you’ll definitely get some strange looks. And if you also happen to be sporty, have education and be able to express yourself then it’ll immediately trigger the “search” for some kind of a hidden agenda and a lot of suspicions.
            Again , if one wants pure sex, then don’t even bother going anywhere and get yourself a western hooker.

  12. Hi Bryan,
    Yes you are right. I was married to a Russian lady and am surrounded by the slavic community where I live. These women tend to be the best deal hunters around and it is a good thing when you are with one of them. They have grown up in harsh economic situations typically and have learned to work within it to maximize their life for the better. One thing I will never complain about with my X was her ability to be stylish and frugal at the same time and stretch a dollar. For all of her other faults this was not one of them. That being said not all EE woman are great with money just like anywhere int he world. They all vary to a degree.

    I would also agree that any woman with any dating experience there is picky about who they are with. Domestic violence is very common there and the police do nothing generally speaking. It is ashamed to see what I have seen both from the scam side of things as well as the crap some of them have gone through. But I do not pity either side of any of these equations. No, a decent woman is not going to jump on you the first time you meet. But if you have corresponded for several months and then go and meet her…and there is chemistry…then yes they will probably want to be intimate with you after a few days. At minimum if they are attracted to you they will want some serious kissing and affection. Real women want this just as much as guys want this. And if you are a good guy and they want to keep you believe me…9 times out of 10 it will happen. Of course I am not saying this as a certainty. I am not telling guys to judge a woman by her willingness to have sex with them. But rather I am telling guys out there who have been sending money to a woman for months before ever meeting and then get the cold shoulder that more than likely they were and are getting milked.

  13. Transexual Russian Brides are very real. And by the time you discover you have been taken in by a man, I can assure you, you would rather have be scammed $5,000 by a man in Russia pretending to be the picture on your computer screen.

  14. Troubled
    Hi guys, a little advise please

    I am possible 1 of those stupid males!
    4 1/2 years, been to Ukraine in 2014 was lucky as was 1 month B 4 MH17
    some issues on first meeting with 2 years in, felt isolated when I stayed there. as she went about life as normal & we had planned to go to Crimea.
    She supposedly joined reserves as no work so had 2 year contract which ends January 2017
    I planned to go again next June and asked her if we could stay together due to it being 5 years by then & I class us as a couple but she still not 100% sure on me yet but happy to take my money.
    After we had disagreement about that and we talk today about renting apartment for me she told me that just to heat her apartment it will cost 9000 grivna month
    I found above link which shows ownly 60usd

    Your thoughts please

    • Kiwi,
      I will say this simply…run…do not walk…run…you are getting played. I am telling you this as a person who knows several scammers personally and not as a disgruntled guy who has been scammed. What I know I am told straight from some of the people doing it.
      It hurts to admit to yourself after so much time vested. But you should save yourself further pain and get out now.
      A solid woman will never ask you for money or insinuate it. And a girl who leaves you hanging on a visit is not into you at all…you are just a pocketbook. Real Ukrainian women will take care of you when you visit even if they dont like you they will feel responsible for you and will make the effort for you to have an enjoyable stay. And 9000 for heating is ridiculous.
      Go meet a real gal from one of the reputable sites. But never ever give money. A real girl will not want even if she needs it out of basic self respect.
      Dont think you are the exception to the rule. This will only leave you with more hirt my friend.

    • Whaaaat? 9K grivnas per month for just heating?
      It must be a huuuuuge mansion then, bigger than Playboy’s one.
      900 grivnas sounds about right though still a but high, but 9K? Man oh man….
      John is right: Run, Kiwi, Run! You ain’t gonna get nothing out of that “relationship ride”.
      Better yet, stay home and look for some sexy Kiwi hookers and spend money on them instead of going overseas for God knows what.
      Or at least go to Thailand and enjoy ladies there, it’s a lot closer to your home, it’s warm and people are friendly.
      I’ll goo as far as saying that Ukraine AND Russia ain’t worth visiting any longer. People here turned into zombies in mere 2-3 years.

    • Kiwi33 ,

      Not sure how much value to give to the price list.I surely would take it with a bit of salt.
      Maybe she ment , that the costs of renting the appartment is 9000 Hrv.

      When I was there in 2013 , I did pay around that price for about a 1 month stay (2 room + kitchen)

      And I never had the luck to eat in a mid range restaurant for 21 $.The restaurants I was in , had a higher price.
      And what do you call a mid range restaurant ?

      Have you already had a meeting with her parents and or friends/relatives ??

      How do you came to the conclusion , to consider yourselves as ” a couple ” ?
      Was/is there something , to add to this conclusion ?

      How many times did you visit her ?


    • Yes, Kiwi, it’s time to change the menu. This Ukrainian lady has been enjoying your money. Two clues for me:

      1. You felt isolated when you stayed there and its been 5 years and you are still not getting anywhere. That doesn’t happen from a Ukrainian lady that cares about you. Back in 2001, when I made my first venture to EE, I went to Moldova. I met a darling of a lady through my American buddy who worked at the Embassy. Actually, it was his language tutor who introduced me to her hair stylist. We communicated via a Berlitz phrase book. At the time, she was 17 years younger than me, but age was never ever an issue. Moldovian ladies are very similar to Ukrainian ladies: conservative, slow to heat up and get to know, etc.

      I had only 10 days to date her, but she made herself available to me every evening after she got off of work. We had dinners and many cafe dates. We kissed on the lips one time and it wasn’t a make out.

      Naturally, being my first time in EE and being stunned by the beauty and grace of these women, it didn’t take me long to fall head over heels for her. 6 months later, I was back to visit her and saw her for about another 2 weeks.

      Finally, on the 3rd trip, which happened to be during Novi Got, or New Year’s, I cracked the safe. We went to Romania, Transylvania, in fact, and stayed in the same hotel room. Fireworks went off and for the next 4 years, and every six months (a 3 week stay), we would rent an apartment in the city and she’d stay with me. She lived with her mom and brother and it wasn’t until the 3rd visit when I finally got to meet them. After that, I was family and we had all of our dinners with mom and relatives. At night, we’d take a taxi back to our apartment.

      My point: a true test of how a Ukrainian lady feels about you, is when she takes a trip with you. They love to travel. When you Alpha Male the trip and make the bookings, don’t ever ask if you want separate rooms. “Just assume the sale,” and drive on. If she cares about you, she’ll like your straight forward approach, and then you’ve hit your Home Run. If she doesn’t care about you, she’ll refuse to sleep with you.

      Move on, Kiwi. Believe me, there are thousands that are better than her and just waiting for you to make the connection (in person, not online). Good luck, mate.

  15. Don’t believe in fairy tales!
    These are all scammer sites:
    AnastasiaDate, and the 3 others connected
    Ukrainian Women,
    Ashley Madison,
    CharmDate, and the 3 others connected

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